WWH education 20-21. Part 8. «Communicating with shops»
Lecture#8 Communicating with shops 11.26.2020
Lecturer: Gunnar
[19:33:44] <Gunnar> Hello everyone, sorry for being late
[19:34:21] <Gunnar> Let's start the lecture
[19:34:33] <Gunnar> Today I will cover the topic of warming up shops / services / interaction with the resource support / SI in warming up
[19:34:48] <Gunnar> So, let's deal with the very term "warm-up"
[19:35:14] <Gunnar> By the concept of warming up, we mean a set of actions designed to put together a complete picture of a real customer in the eyes of AF systems and shop / service managers during manual verification
[19:35:53] <Gunnar> Modern AF systems record all your actions from the first visit to the site until the moment of placing an order, and in some cases - even after it and analyze them using machine learning
[19:36:26] <Gunnar> In case of detection of any anomalous actions for a “normal” user, a fraudcorder is thrown into the order and when its critical values are reached, the order is either instantiated or sent for manual review
[19:36:55] <Gunnar> Thus, our task during warm-up is to try to be as similar as possible to a real user
[19:37:07] <Gunnar> Let's analyze the whole warm-up process from the very beginning
[19:37:29] <Gunnar> Before driving in, you have to decide which email address and phone number you will use. You have the following options:
[19:37:47] <Gunnar> - Use of email address and phone number of KX;
[19:38:02] <Gunnar> - Using a self-registering email address and a phone number that you control (Google Voice or similar);
[19:38:17] <Gunnar> - Mix of the above options: self-registration email + KX number; email KX + your number.
[19:38:37] <Gunnar> I would like to highlight the use of fake data (modification, for example, the last digit of the KX number) as a separate item - this is the least preferred option for most situations, and then I will explain why
[19:38:55] <Gunnar> Let's figure out why you might need to use the KX data at all - after all, a shop can just take and call / write an email to the holder, which will ruin our sweat and bloodshed by driving
[19:39:19] <Gunnar> The fact is that most modern AF systems pierce the mailing address used in the order for the presence of registered social accounts. networks and public services punching BG
[19:39:48] <Gunnar> Thus, if the shop has already suffered from fraud and they tweaked their AF system, driving them into such a shop from the left email addresses will basically not work. And when using KX data, the chance will still be
[19:40:04] <Gunnar> / Here I will make a small footnote about what BG is for those who do not know:
[19:40:32] <Gunnar> BG = background / background / backing. BG is often understood as a background report. There are many companies in the USA that collect a kind of dossier on a person. There are many, both public and private, services from which you can get a wide variety of information, including:
[19:40:39] <Gunnar> - Full name, including middle name
[19:40:44] <Gunnar> - Age, ext;
[19:40:59] <Gunnar> - Information about relatives (names, ages and often also full BG on them);
[19:41:05] <Gunnar> - Address of residence, including also previous registered addresses;
[19:41:12] <Gunnar> - Phones, email addresses;
[19:41:19] <Gunnar> - Information about places of work;
[19:41:25] <Gunnar> - Criminal records, etc.
[19:42:11] <Gunnar> Whitepages, intelius, peoplefinders, etc. can be considered as examples of open (public) BG penetration services. Access to them can be obtained by driving in a subscription (it is often very simple to drive in, even from live testing)
[19:42:24] <Gunnar> Private services include, for example, westlaw and lexis nexis.
[19:43:01] <Gunnar> If we analyze AF systems, then in many of them you can see a separate section devoted to trusting email addresses, including the estimated age of mail
[19:44:06] <Gunnar> No AF system can directly reliably say exactly when an email account was registered, registered on public email services like gmail / outlook, etc. - however, it can determine svezhereg with an extremely high degree of probability: it is enough that the email is not in search engines, does not shine in the public services of the BG breakout, and accounts in popular social networks are not registered for it. networks and services (facebook, linkedin, google, etc.)
[19:44:43] <Gunnar> In the same way, no AF system knows whether the mail that you indicated in the order is the billing email address of KX and whether it belongs to him - however, in the same way it can guess by the above factors
[19:45:59] <Gunnar> Anticipating the question of whether it is worth registering various services for self-registration of email in order to outwit the anti-fraud - most likely it is not worth it: if you are not sure that your card will get into the shop with with a huge degree of probability according to your previous statistics (which implies that you already have some experience), then most likely you will be wasting your time (and you need it decently so that you can register a unique email and social networks for each card)
[19:46:30] <Gunnar> All of the above is also true for a phone number: if you use a phone number that you control (as the most popular option is Google Voice), AF systems can see that it:
[19:47:21] <Gunnar> - Virtual (you can make sure that this is very easy by checking the phone number at https://www.freecarrierlookup.com or similar services. Enter the Google Voice number (eg (720) 310-5182?) - and in the Carrier line we see “Google / Bandwidth.com (SVR).” It's not that a real user can't use Google Voice - but, you see, fraudulent orders will have this option much more often than real, which immediately puts our order at a disadvantage;
[19:47:32] <Gunnar> - Does not break through on BG penetration services and does not light up in Google.
[19:48:22] <Gunnar> Accordingly, when you use a phone number under your control, you immediately raise questions from the AF system. The same applies to the "modified" phone number - in the case when the KX phone number is used for driving in with a randomly chosen last digit that differs from the last digit in the KX number
[19:48:51] <Gunnar> However, an indisputable advantage of the approach using phone numbers / emails controlled by you is the ability to receive a letter / call from the shop, in some situations this can be critically important for your driving
[19:49:07] <Gunnar> A couple of tips on how to register mail if you decide to use self-registering email addresses:
[19:49:22] <Gunnar> - Use popular mail providers (in the US it is Gmail, Outlook / Hotmail, Yahoo);
[19:50:44] <Gunnar> - When registering, select the name of the mail account, which contains the first and last name of the holder. If the holder's name is John Franklin, try to register a mail similar to johnfranklin@gmail.com. Most likely, such obvious options, especially in the case of the popular name and surname of the holder, will be occupied - therefore, use your imagination and add some words to the name of your future email account, for example: mrjohnfranklin@gmail.com; sirjohnfranklin@gmail.com, etc. I do not recommend using numbers, AF systems do not like this, considering it one of the factors that make it possible to determine the fresh reg;
[19:52:12] <Gunnar> - I would also like to dwell on the use of corporate mails for driving. I recommend using them only if you are going to drive in something specific and professional to disguise as a business custom. In the case of using bldg. mail, make sure that the domain looks trustworthy enough, is not fresh (it is broken by whois), the site itself contains the appropriate content, or a redirect to the site of the relevant subject (because shop managers can check all these factors to make sure of reality and the plausibility of the existence of the domain and the site on it). Why don't I recommend using corpses for regular drives? It's simple: the use of corpus immediately knocks you out of the number of ordinary users using public services, and after all, initially your task is to disguise as much as possible as an average user
[19:53:10] <Gunnar> Also, I want to note that in order to minimize the likelihood of a successful call to the holder by the shop, or the holder's receiving an email from the shop, and the holder's phone and email can be flooded
[19:53:47] <Gunnar> Brief help for those who do not know what it is - there are services that provide services for flooding emails and phones (you can always find it on the forum), the essence of their work is that they throw a huge number of letters into the email inbox, among which notifications from the shop should be lost
[19:54:09] <Gunnar> In the case of phone flooding, respectively, continuous calls are received on the KX phone, which will lead to the fact that the number will be busy when the shop calls, or simply disconnected as a result of the rage quit holder
[19:54:55] <Gunnar> In case of using flooding, there are questions about the percentage of successful inbox messages (or the percentage of successful dial-ups), but I'll leave it to your judgment: if you decide to use such services, carefully read the reviews and test them on your own email / phone to check the efficiency
[19:55:28] <Gunnar> You can unambiguously decide which of the email address and phone number options to use, you can only test various combinations in your chosen shop (somewhere the left soap will go to the public email service and govoys, somewhere on the left soap / phone the anti-fraud will be charged, but the KX shop does not ring and you can use the KX data without flooding, somewhere the shop calls each order and everything needs to be flooded, etc.).
[19:55:48] <Gunnar> Now that you know all about the options for using data for driving, let's go directly to the process of warming up the shop
[19:55:59] <Gunnar> The warm-up process starts from the moment you first go to the site of the shop / service you have chosen
[19:56:24] <Gunnar> Antifraud sees where you came from by checking the HTTP referer(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTTP_referer is the HTTP protocol header)
[19:56:38] <Gunnar> In order for your referral to be as trustworthy as possible, do not follow the direct link to the shop / service
[19:57:03] <Gunnar> Turn on your imagination and go from popular search engines (Google / Yahoo / Bing), various sites whose articles mention the shop / service you have chosen as a victim, aggregator sites, etc.
[19:57:34] <Gunnar> Separately, I would like to note that the shop can also track the request for which you came to it from the search engine, because search queries from search engines are sent via GET requests, i.e. visible in the address bar of the browser (for those who want to dig deeper into this issue: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/941469/is-it-possible-to-capture-search-term-from-google-search)
[19:57:52] <Gunnar> For us, this suggests that when you go to a shop from Google, you should use believable-looking search queries
[19:58:09] <Gunnar> So, let's say that we chose a trust source to go to the site and ended up on it, which already gave us a couple of anti-fraud loyalty points, or at least didn't take them away
[19:58:46] <Gunnar> Here I would like to note that the importance of further actions for each service or shop is significantly different: there is absolutely no need to bother somewhere and the drives will successfully enter without warming up at all, where it is worth getting a little worn out. To understand how everything works, you only need to test your chosen services
[19:59:17] <Gunnar> Let's take any shop that sells electronics as an example
[19:59:29] <Gunnar> Suppose we decided that it would be nice to drive him in and, without hesitation, began to act
[20:00:00] <Gunnar> Let's say that we don't know yet how this shop relates to warming up. Because our task is to test as many shops as possible, we can hardly afford to heat each chosen shop for hours, therefore, we will take 10-30 minutes as a reference warm-up time, from which we can start
[20:00:15] <Gunnar> Usually this is more than enough to warm up a shop, while effortlessly processing 10+ shops a day during the test phase
[20:00:31] <Gunnar> There is no single recommendation on how to heat shops, except for one: behave like a customer
[20:01:00] <Gunnar> Choose your line of behavior: if you want to be aimed at the widest possible coverage of a large number of shops, go directly to the link to the product you are interested in, study it in the shop, read some general data like FAQ , payment and delivery policies and proceed to checkout
[20:01:25] <Gunnar> If you are not particularly limited in time, behave like the most meticulous buyer: start by familiarizing yourself with the shop from the links in the footer - read everything that may contain information about delivery, all collapsed items in the FAQ, perhaps read reviews about the shop, if they are in the shop itself, subscribe to the newsletter
[20:01:34] <Gunnar> Next, go to the desired product category
[20:01:46] <Gunnar> Do not wander thoughtlessly around the shop, use your chosen product direction
[20:02:05] <Gunnar> It looks suspicious if a client wants to buy a camera, at the stage of choosing he looks instead of a photo equipment, a smart watch, for example, and in the end he goes and adds a camera to the cart for 2k and pays right away without even going to section with photographic equipment
[20:02:30] <Gunnar> Don't rush to add your product to the cart. View the N number of competing items, add the product you need to your favorites in advance, use the shop functionality like Compare Items to compare similar products
[20:03:06] <Gunnar> Here I would like to note that all of the above is also called "feeding cookies", because so that the AF system can track us, it needs to uniquely identify us and it does this with the help of cookies (data stored by the site in the local storage of our browser) and fingerprinting technologies, but now that's not about that
[20:03:28] <Gunnar> One often hears the following question: does it make sense to "fatten" cookies on third-party services?
[20:03:42] <Gunnar> My answer is absolutely unambiguous: no, it doesn't. No site can see third-party cookies from other services
[20:04:16] <Gunnar> Technically, this feature can be partially implemented using CORS (Cross-Origin Resource Sharing) - however, this technology is used specifically for the use of resources by several sites together, but in no case for tracking users by sites, it violates any Privacy Policy and is considered illegal activity
[20:04:53] <Gunnar> The only way CORS can be used by antifrauds is to detect the fact that you have visited any third-party services by requesting any resources presented on them (for example, pictures)
[20:05:16] <Gunnar> This way you can track whether you have visited, for example, everyone's favorite whoer and immediately throw a fraud flag on you, if so
[20:05:36] <Gunnar> Also, anti-frauds have the ability to check whether you are logged into popular services in the browser you are using: https://browserleaks.com/social#explanation
[20:05:57] <Gunnar> Thus, if you want to make the most thorough and meticulous warm-up, log in to a couple of any popular social accounts. networks - this will be enough
[20:06:07] <Gunnar> Back to our imaginary drive
[20:06:20] <Gunnar> After we decided we warmed the shop well enough, we proceed to the payment process
[20:06:43] <Gunnar> You can pay as a guest (Checkout as Guest), or create an account in the shop - it is more convenient for anyone, most often this does not play a big role, but creating an account can give you more control over the order in the future (at least, you can always check its status)
[20:07:07] <Gunnar> In case you have not created an account, look for Track My Order or similar links in the footer of the shop to use them to track the status after placing an order
[20:07:37] <Gunnar> An important point: fill in all the information by hand, or if you use the Linken Sphere antidetect, use Paste Like Human Print (emulation of manual input). Copy-paste is highly undesirable, because it is also tracked and not considered by AF systems as actions typical for a real user
[20:07:55] <Gunnar> Next, let's look at the interaction with the support of the resource you selected
[20:08:24] <Gunnar> Communication with the support can be used even at the warm-up stage as one of its additional elements. Some shops track user interactions with the support and then can bind them to the order, so in some cases it makes sense to throw a little questions at them
[20:09:32] <Gunnar> When interacting with a support, you can also not only win a little trust from the anti-fraud, but also find out information that is really important for driving in - for example, find out how the shop relates to driving on different bills and whether there is a ban on hold or rerut in the shop (short note: hold and rerut are manipulations with the courier service, allowing you to change the end point of delivery of the pack: the courier service department in the case of a hold and another address in the case of a rerut. There will be a separate lecture on these topics )
[20:10:54] <Gunnar> You can also feel free to ask the support about how relevant the availability of goods in the shop is (it often happens that you made an order, but the goods were not available, although it was in stock on the product page - and all your driving can go down the drain due to the fact that you were too lazy to talk to the support in the live chat) - you can ask in advance, is the product in stock for sure? Like, I made an order with your competitors before you, but there was no product, I don't want your shop to disappoint me either
[20:11:32] <Gunnar> To find out about the options for rutting or driving on a different bil-thorn, you should ask about the possibility of sending the goods to a friend (for example, for a gift) or to another address under some pretext (here sometimes they are good natural disasters - for example, you see that there was a hurricane in Arizona, tell the support that he took your laptop with your house and you urgently need a new one at a different address)
[20:11:48] <Gunnar> You can also contact the support if you have difficulties with payment
[20:11:59] <Gunnar> For example, you are catching a decline - you can clarify what exactly caused it
[20:12:18] <Gunnar> It is far from a fact that they will tell you the truth, but sometimes they say directly what the antifraud was being triggered for and this will give you an understanding of how to approach this shop in the future
[20:12:37] <Gunnar> Well, the most obvious thing is that some time after placing the order (if the order was still successful) you can find out information about it and in case of failure (canceling the order or any other problem with him), in the same way ask the reason and find out the maximum information using SI
[20:12:52] <Gunnar> When calling the shop for some important points (for example, you are asked to verify the order), you must prepare in advance the data with which you will go through the verification
[20:13:10] <Gunnar> At a minimum, you must have complete card details (including first / last name, email and phone number of the holder), billing address, what exactly you ordered (product code, exact amount, packaging and some special marks, if the product requires it)
[20:13:35] <Gunnar> I also recommend opening Google Maps on the holder's address to be ready for a question like "which street do you see from the window?" or "what's the closest major store to you?" - shop managers use such questions to make sure that it is not a fraudster calling
[20:14:05] <Gunnar> If you call yourself, everything should be in your head and you should answer the questions posed as quickly and clearly as possible. If the ringing rings instead of you, provide all the available information at once. Call from a substitution from the phone number from which you made the order; in case of using a third-party dialer, be sure to give him this number
[20:14:20] <Gunnar> / Here I will make one more footnote, because I am often asked this question after lectures
[20:14:41] <Gunnar> By using SIP telephony services, you can spoof (spoof) your CallerID, i.e. caller's phone number
[20:15:02] <Gunnar> To understand how this works: you can call yourself from your phone number, for example, or from your neighbor's phone number, but even from 911 - what you write in the SIP service in line CallerID, then the receiving call will be displayed on the display of his phone
[20:15:28] <Gunnar> In order to make a substitution call, register on one of the many SIP telephony services (I recommend services from our forum - narayana and SIP24, look for them), top up your balance, download software for SIP -telephony (MicroSIP under Windows / jitsi under MacOS or their analogues), set up the connection, change the Caller ID in the SIP service interface and call
[20:15:52] <Gunnar> Also, if you need to call on behalf of a female KX, and you are of the opposite sex, you can safely use Voice Morpher (voice morphs) - software for changing the voice. 90% of service calls do the same, claiming that they have both male and female voices.
[20:16:24] <Gunnar> If you were contacted by mail and asked for additional information, you should answer as politely and believably as possible, take into account your response time, you should not answer at 1 pm Moscow time. Respond during business hours according to the time zone in which the holder is located
[20:16:51] <Gunnar> If the support asked for photo / scans of documents (ID, bank statement, etc.) - politely inform them that you are not at work and will be happy to satisfy their request later. This will give time to prepare the necessary renderings (let me remind you that you can order renderings of any documents from numerous services presented on our forum)
[20:17:25] <Gunnar> If the support asks you to contact them by phone, get ready to quickly work with the broken BG if you call yourself. Tell us that you are fond of photography, ask why it was necessary to call and the like. If you do not speak English at the proper level, take this matter to professionals and familiarize them with the necessary back and order information
[20:17:34] <Gunnar> Let's touch on the topic of warming up and driving with the use of ringing
[20:18:01] <Gunnar> The whole point of warming up by phone before placing an order is that when you place an order, your phone number will already be in the system and when you specify it, you will have an additional plus to the antifraud loyalty. Just call on behalf of KX to the store and ask about the basic things and all that I mentioned earlier - you can immediately find out how the store has delivery, the possibility of hold / rut, etc.
[20:18:20] <Gunnar> As I said above, you can call in the same way after driving in - just ask the support if everything went well, what to do next and any related information
[20:18:42] <Gunnar> Also, in many stores there is an opportunity to order goods by phone (I recommend trying to do this if you can't get through the shop using traditional methods)
[20:19:18] <Gunnar> This is a great option in the shop if you are an unsure user of antiques / doubt in the selection of ip / are afraid that your system is not perfect and orders do not pass precisely because of problems on your side. Everything is quite simple here: prepare a checkmate, create a mail (or use the holder's mail) and select the phone number from which you will call (the holder's number with substitution / google voice or a similar VoIP number)
[20:19:48] <Gunnar> When dialing in, you just need to tell what kind of product you want to buy (you can safely consult with the support about the choice), after that you will be asked to dictate your data (billing and shipping addresses, contact information - email + phone and, of course, card details - number, exp, CVV)
[20:20:33] <Gunnar> After that, the support agent will manually enter your card into the payment terminal on his side (and in some cases, he simply makes an order for you through the client's part of the shop) and you will receive the result of the transaction (approval / declline ). If you received a declline, you should not exclude the human factor, ask the support to check the correctness of the entered data and drive it in again
[20:20:41] <Gunnar> That's all for today, I'm waiting for your questions about the lecture
[20:21:38] <Koba787> 2. Logically, now it turned out like this: You bought a CC, registered mail, registered twitter and all this rests for 2-7 days? so that mail and social networks would appear in Google and then get into the store?
3. The situation is this, from my experience, just do not laugh, I tried to understand how that is tripled and: I hammered into the satya ell. Well, in general, they have reached the point that they will check the application and send the purchase. Does it make sense at such a moment to call the shop yourself and confirm the purchase?
[20:23:32] <Gunnar> 2. I wrote that I just do not recommend doing this in most cases: most often the efforts spent on the regusocial. networks, etc. under the holder do not pay off. It is better then to use the original KX data, or try to find irrelevant data from his BG (for example, the old phone number, you can also call him to make sure that he is inactive)
[20:24:36] <Koba787> Yes, but we can’t register in the shop on his email, in principle
[20:24:51] <Gunnar> 3. On apple.com it does not have 100%, in general it makes sense only if the order hangs in this status for an abnormally long time. On apple, on average, the order is processed several hours. If more - most likely, it has already been canceled (epl managers often do not update the status)
[20:25:07] <Gunnar> Koba787 ?: so it's not necessary to register
[20:25:20] <Gunnar> (I wrote about checkout as guest)
[20:25:37] <Goodman> 1. How can we get access to KX's e-mail in order to use it?
2. "Driving into such a shop from left email addresses, in principle, will not work. And when using KX data, there will still be a chance" - left type osdighosfoj@pkfkkk.com? or something else is being pounded?
3. Flood is needed mainly when working with logs, do I understand correctly?
4. Will it be a plus of going to a shop, for example, from advertising on Instagram or Facebook?
[20:26:03] <Gunnar> 1. No way, we don't need access to the email itself to use it when placing an order
[20:26:35] <Gunnar> 2. Left - any, NOT belonging to KX
[20:27:14] <Gunnar> 3. I don’t know how you came to this conclusion based on what was written in the lecture :) Flood should be used when using holder data
[20:27:59] <Gunnar> 4. The transition methods do not really give an increase to the antifraud trust, in my opinion, the very fact of the trust transition is important here, and from where it has a minimal effect
[20:28:09] <RedHeadCockatoo> "" If the support asks you to contact them by phone, get ready to quickly work with the broken BG if you call yourself. Tell us that you are fond of photography, ask "" Why was there a recommendation regarding "I am fond of photography"? You just need to add some additional information about yourself? Or does "hobby for photography" give any advantages?
[20:28:30] <Gunnar> Because in the example I drove cameras
[20:28:36] <Gunnar> I think the analogy is clear further
[20:28:41] <Gunnar> Drive in laptops - talk about gaming
[20:28:43] <Gunnar> Etc.
[20:28:57] <dat_user1> Look
I first make Gmail, Facebook, then using these sites I log into the shop (if there is such a button, as in the world for example)
This is immediately a plus to the drive?
[20:30:11] <Gunnar> In principle, yes, but I'll clarify the point - you can log in to the same social networks with each drive. accounts, because AF sees only the fact that you are logged in, and not where you are logged in. So you can have, say, a google account, fb and tweeter and log in to them in a circle with each entry (for example, in every anti-ic session)
[20:30:26] <Izolentna> 1) How to check frodscore then, if you shouldn't go to such checkers as whoer?
2) She wrote it to us, like Martha. On account of the fact that if you can drive in while kx sleeps. What to do then with the ringing? Hope that kh is asleep and then we call the shop? (litter for a stupid question))
[20:32:10] <Gunnar> 1) You can check and clear the cache and cookies in the antidetect session (or check in incognito if it is a real machine), you can check the output IP address from the outside using various checkers. In the initial stages, it is better to always check on the same dick to make sure that everything is ok with the session and just clean it up before warming up
[20:33:43] <Gunnar> 2) It's hard to say here, at least I don't do it myself - what should KX wake up and check the mail? This is usually done first. It is better to try to use an inactive email or just hope for luck (on a large number of entries, it will be seen that only 30 percent of KX regularly check the email)
[20:34:33] <Gunnar> 3) There is no correlation at all. BG when driving in does not help in 95% of cases, for the most part it is necessary to pass an evil verification (and even then, there is enough free verification) or to call the bank
[20:34:47] <OTJlU4HUK> Let's imagine a situation that before warming up I decided to view the CH data in the above services. There is no BG on it. In this case, self-registration email + kxnumber will be a better option than kx soap with its own number? Can several shops be heated at the same time?
[20:36:31] <Gunnar> 1) It's hard to say, because Each shop has its AF tweaked differently and there is no 100% correct tactics. Protest the shop and see the number of chancellors. On average, I more often test new shops for self-registered gmail than for KX soap, in order to see what alerts it sends, etc.
[20:37:32] <Gunnar> 2) Of course, you can warm up several shops. In different sessions of antika - this is not a question at all, but in one - it will be a minus if the same AF system with a common base comes across in shops
[20:37:57] <goldenbaum> 1. that is, with vip telephony, we can put absolutely any number that will be displayed? If we put the KX number and the shop calls back on it?
2. Is it worth calling yourself if you have a person with perfect American English or the experience of dialers is irreplaceable?
3. I have already asked other lecturers, but your opinion, will it be better to warm up the shop from the iPhone to which the Internet is distributed from the wired router? what needs to be considered in this case? What kind of information does antifraud get from an iPhone, for example? He can check which applications I have installed, my apple id, and so on?
[20:38:15] <Gunnar> 1. Yes, all statements are correct
[20:38:44] <Gunnar> 2. Definitely worth it yourself, you will get invaluable experience. If you come across a complex case, you will call it
[20:40:40] <Gunnar> 3. Driving from a real device is preferable in most cases. If you hit from the browser, then the site will not see anything about your device except the user agent, if from the application, it will not see anything on the iPhone either, google for requests "can iphone app check device id" and the like. Apple takes privacy very seriously and applications generally see a minimum of information about the user - only what you yourself consent to
[20:42:55] <riba12> Gunnar: when is lying down used?
[20:43:07] <Gunnar> What exactly?
[20:43:15] <riba12> akka
[20:44:20] <Gunnar> What exactly is the Akka? In our lecture it was about direct drives, there is often no acca as such. If the question is about creating an account in a shop and keeping it up - in theory, you can do this, but in practice it will give few advantages. The real advantage will have an account with order history - for example, from logs
[20:44:29] <Gunnar> Or was there something else in mind?
[20:45:02] <yarah> from your experience, for us starters, what is the rate out of 10 we will have to call the shop and try to convince him about the order? Is it something that happens a lot or only in some specific situations?
you said about replying to the email at the guy's time, not 1pm Moscow time, however what about the driving into the shop? Our time so he's asleep or when he's awake? thanks
[20:46:49] <Gunnar> 1. I wouldn't say it happens a lot, yet you will definitely experience this from time to time. In most cases your order will just be declined without detailed explanations or debates. Yet some shops require mandatary call order verifications and others call customers if they see something they don't like about the order or the transaction
[20:48:04] <Gunnar> 2. By driving you mean making a fraudulent order I guess. So I would say normal life time (like 9.00AM - 9.00PM by card holder's time zone) is the best time
[20:49:56] <yarah> great thanks. yes drving in i meant carding the shop; P when it's reading lecture translations you guys always say "driving in", so I thought I'll use it to help you understand my question lol anyway thx
[20:50:06] <yarah> I'm *
[20:50:08] <centurion_52> how can af can burn that you are sitting with vm?
[20:50:31] <Gunnar> yarah ?: I see :)
[20:52:22] <Gunnar> centurion_52 ?: for hardware, canvas, web gl, audio fingerprint and so on. All this can be correctly spoofed, an example of this is the "iron" antidetect from Vektor T13 at the VM level. But it makes real sense if you work from applications, in the case of working with web services it is easier to use browser antidetects
[20:53:17] <Izolentna> That is, with only the VM you won't do it normally? Do you need either a sphere or everything that youcenturion_52 said?
[20:53:45] <Izolentna> I just wanted to try myself: D
[20:55:05] <Gunnar> If you don't understand what needs to be spoofed, you definitely won't do a normal drive with the VM. Better take some inexpensive antique, while the sphere is not there (there are a lot of them, keep it, there are those that you can take for a week / month)
[20:55:59] <Goodman> Antidetect from vector found only 18 years old, is it relevant now?
There are no other options with vm?
Googling "Virtual Machine Spoof"?
[20:57:11] <Gunnar> 1. I think it is at least partially relevant, but he stopped supporting it. At least it will do for the start
[20:57:26] <Gunnar> You can try to google, but I have not seen similar projects
[20:57:32] <Gunnar> Like this one was the only adequate
[20:57:56] <Gunnar> I think you can try to order paid support from him if you need an iron solution, but this is inaccurate
[20:58:17] <Gunnar> Try the old version to start, maybe it will be enough
[20:58:23] <SPARK_LQ> when driving in a shop from the log where another kx with tsts has already been hoisted. in the CC which we will link to write it beat but with the name of the log?
[21:00:05] <Gunnar> Here different approaches for different shops are applicable, in most shops this approach will not work due to AVS verification on the merch side
[21:00:17] <OTJlU4HUK> what is antique?
[21:00:21] <Gunnar> Antidetect
[21:00:54] <Gunnar> OTJlU4HUK ?: And what is antidetect, I think the easiest way to google it)
[21:01:08] <Koba787> 1. For example, they bought an SS, they pondered badly. For various reasons, but the fact is not successful. How to understand that the card has already died, if at all was alive?
2. Bought a CC - how much can it be stored idle, I mean, if the store is good, the card is alive, then nothing should happen to it, as long as its data is in my personal account of the shop?
3. Does the gmail always require a phone number to register?
4. It turns out that now the plane of carding lies more in working with syllables than with SS?
5.How to search to find shops with weak AF?
6.What is spoofing?
7.I am finishing
[21:01:19] <OTJlU4HUK> Gunnar: i know about the sphere
[21:01:51] <Gunnar> 1. By check / calling the bank, I talked about this at the lecture about cards
[21:02:56] <Koba787> 7. We have spoken many times about beat and spike addresses, but I still cannot understand the truth. In one lecture, we say that the beat and the spike must match and will not miss AF and AVS in any other way, in another we say that you can write the address of the intermediary, which is 99% in the Delevar state, or to the address of the drop that is next to the zip kx. In the end, what to do and how?))
[21:03:24] <Gunnar> 2. Depends on many factors, some are stored until the expiration date arrives, some die quickly. They can quickly die if the seller sold the card in two hands, or the holder is simply irresponsible about the security of his payment means and regularly compromises his card by various methods. Also, he simply can close / re-release it at any time.
[21:04:23] <Gunnar> 3. Not always, on a clean (clean according to Google) system + proxy gives without verification. For example, it works well without SMS on the iPhone + fresh proxies that have not been sent by carders
[21:05:36] <Gunnar> 4. Lies where the carder has experience and up-to-date developments (it is better to answer here, it is also possible to work with CC without logs, but experience is needed)
[21:05:43] <Gunnar> 5. By tests
[21:05:50] <Koba787> 8. How to understand and find fresh proxies?)))
[21:06:48] <Gunnar> 6. Spoof (English spoof) - replace some parameters / values
[21:07:59] <tayna@laba.im> what is the alternative to drive from an iPhone (android) + a stitched router. what can we replace the router with? just register a proxy as a little like.
[21:08:11] <Gunnar> 7. Next there will be a lecture on a pickup truck, I'll tell you in more detail there. In short - 95% + shops are not sent to a mismatched bill-spike (options from logs are possible, but not entirely straightforward), and those that are sent are in the overwhelming majority of shops with illiquid assets
[21:08:58] <Gunnar> 8. If we are talking about public services with a proxy, then by the date of adding to the service, most often it is written (although it does not always coincide with reality, since the proxy can get into the service more than 1 time)
[21:09:09] <Temporary> Question: how to find stores with weak AF? Answer: Test. Test - try to drive in tts?
[21:09:35] <Gunnar> Well, yes, how else? :) By typing, tests. You won't know if you can drive into a shop without driving% into it)
[21:11:57] <Gunnar> ?tayna@laba.im ?: can be replaced, for example, with a bunch of VM + doublesshmanager (I will not disassemble here, who is interested - they will Google it), also with the help of linux machines (as an example - raspberry pi) and external wi-fi adapters. Google for requests for proxy over wi-fi, socks5 wi-fi router, etc.
[21:12:17] <SPARK_LQ> that is, it is better to write in the name kx cts when driving from the log and linking your CC? how will af will react to this that earlier kx bought from 1 center and then with a completely different name and beat? Or would it be better then to use ey tts if it is necessary to beat a thorn on a different one from the log of the shop?
[21:13:21] <Gunnar> 1. Bro, I don’t know how a spherical antifraud will react to this in a vacuum, each shop has its own antifraud with its own settings. Such things need to be tested, there is no single recommendation.
[21:13:42] <centurion_52> about calling banks or overseas shops, how is this done?
[21:14:04] <Gunnar> With SIP you take and call
[21:14:11] <Gunnar> Are you interested in anything specific?
[21:14:13] <tayna@laba.im>? I mean, rather than replace the phone with what, but rather than replace the stitched router. just a proxy or do you need a program to replace geo? (in continuation of the question)
[21:14:28] <Gunnar> ?tayna@laba.im ?: this is how I wrote to you about replacing the router
[21:14:34] <Gunnar> reread the answer :)
[21:14:36] <centurion_52> google further
[21:15:05] <Gunnar> centurion_52 ?: you missed mb, but in the lecture I dwelled on the issue of using SIP
[21:15:18] <Temporary> if testing is just a drive-in - what are the criteria that it's time to put a bolt on this shop and move on to another? And in general, how often did it happen that you ditch a bunch of cards (and therefore money) at once for a shop, and as a result - you understand that nothing shines here?
[21:16:17] <tayna@laba.im>? How can I install doublesshmanager on my phone?
[21:17:04] <Gunnar> 1. If it doesn't give - you score, roughly speaking. Again, there are no uniform criteria, everything is based on sensations. Do not bins climb into a shop, climbing into other shops? MB such a shop is not needed. Is the shop too hemorrhoid? It may also make sense to score on him. It's quite difficult to say unequivocally
[21:17:15] <Goodman> You are distributing wifi to your phone with everything
[21:17:16] <Gunnar> tayna@laba.im ?: and who says that he should be put on the phone?
[21:17:24] <Gunnar> Goodman ?: quite right
[21:17:48] <Koba787> 9. Well, as I understand it, there are shops that sell logs, and there are shops that sell CC. So that I would not see the SS together with the logs. And in the end, how to connect Vasya's logs with SS Diego?
10.It can be replaced, for example, with a bunch of VM + doublesshmanager (I will not disassemble it here, who is interested - they will google it), also using linux machines (as an example - raspberry pi) and external wi-fi adapters. Google for requests for proxy over wi-fi, socks5 wi-fi router, etc. - it's not at all clear what, where, for what))))
[21:18:14] <Koba787> in short - 95% + shops are not sent to a mismatched beep - and after that the world collapsed altogether
[21:18:35] <Goodman> tayna@laba.im: If you are interested in a portable version of a router, you can use a 4g modem configured with open vpn and all the buns are from 12k as far as I remember
[21:19:37] <Gunnar> 9. Often, there may be a holder's CC attached to the shop account. Regarding "how to connect ss and log" - depends on the policy of the shop, there is no unambiguous recipe. Somewhere you can bind the left ss and send it to the KX address followed by hold / rerut (there will be a separate lecture about this)
[21:20:12] <Gunnar> 10. If it's not clear, then you don't need it yet :) In short, the question was about the distribution of proxiedwifi
[21:20:57] <Temporary> how does the security service, when dialing, relate to our rather pronounced pronunciation of English? When is John Dillinger from Ohio a buy?
[21:21:29] <Izolentna> Temporary: Ask for a call
[21:22:24] <Gunnar> Differently, depends on the shop manager. In large shops, it is very often hammered into this, in small ones they can be very alert. If there are problems with English - they answered quite rightly above - it is better to ask to call and simultaneously pump your English
[21:22:55] <Koba787> More than 5 years in business?
[21:23:00] <Gunnar> Less
[21:23:15] <Koba787> I'm trying to figure out how long it takes to figure it out)
[21:24:37] <Temporary> what level of English is needed for digestible work without ringing? I can communicate, I have experience of communication at work, but more often with the Chinese, but a little also with yusa and england, germany (all on yeng)
[21:24:42] <Gunnar> Koba787 ?: Very difficult to say, it depends on the person, his previous experience, ability to understand and specific specialization in carzh
[21:24:51] <Temporary> no ringing = no help from third-party services
[21:25:11] <Gunnar> Temporary ?: my advice is to call the same apple or stick and try to chat with the managers
[21:25:21] <Temporary> called
[21:25:22] <Gunnar> This way you can understand how comfortable you are and how they react to you
[21:25:24] <Temporary> norms
[21:25:47] <Gunnar> Again, there is no definite answer like go with upper-intermediate or 5+ IELTS
[21:26:00] <Gunnar> Well, if it's okay, then call me, what's the problem? :)
[21:26:06] <Gunnar> You will simultaneously pump the skill
[21:26:08] <Temporary> yes, the accent question was scary
[21:26:24] <Goodman> Koba787: don't worry too much, everything will come with experience, during training there will be more than 10 lecturers and they are all professionals in their niche, but it will be difficult to become a pro in all directions, and not all of them need) The most important thing is to start to understand and not be afraid to practice
[21:26:32] <Izolentna> Temporary: Acents will immediately hear and can deploy
[21:26:41] <Temporary> understandable
[21:27:25] <Goodman> Temporary: in Yus they already have a lot of accents if the pronunciation is correct, I think there will be no troubles
[21:27:38] <dat_user1> Izolentna: Who told you that ??
[21:27:55] <Goodman> dat_user1 +
[21:28:06] <dat_user1> Izolentna: There are a lot of immigrants in Yusa
who speak broken english
[21:28:11] <Gunnar> If a manager suddenly gets pissed off about an accent, press it right away. Americans are very sensitive to questions of harassment, etc. therefore, if you decided that he did not like your voice, then you can intimidate him with the court and anything. "I am the citizen of the United States, how dare you talk to me like that, young man?"
[21:28:15] <Izolentna> dat_user1: I have a kind, our irreplaceable English is heard right away
[21:28:32] <Izolentna> Gunnar: This is the argument, thanks)
[21:28:33] <Gunnar> Goodman ?: true
[21:28:45] <Goodman> Gunnar: finished for today? Home will be on the go?
[21:29:11] <Gunnar> I have no homework, smoke the forum :) Mb Martha on the forum will throw off
[21:29:40] <Izolentna> dat_user1: It's just that the name will be English))
[21:29:57] <Gunnar> Okay, that's all for today, thank you all for your presence!
[21:30:09] <Gunnar> If you liked the lecture, I will be glad to receive feedback https://wwh-club.cc/index.php?threads/otzyvy-o-gunnar.143054/
[21:30:27] <Gunnar> Good luck!
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